GeologyRocks

'Some mountains are older the the Earth'

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 How could you possibly ascertain that??????!!!!!!!

A good deal of the mountain ranges on Earth are actually quite young in comparison to its overall age. Tectonics coupled with weathering and erosion tend to see to it that no one mountain range is that old, let alone the impossibility of being older than that which formed it. 

Is this a literal explanation of a religious text by any chance?

 Well, true, no doubt about if. A bit vague but sufficient.

I have been to a number of young and old mountains in various countries (Peru, Germany, France Romania) and in none there could be found any evidence of an extra-terrestrial origin. Actually all I have seen are made up from either ancient marine or terrigen sediments, volcanic rock or metamorph rocks and a fairly easily explained. So my questions? Can you name me one or more sites to verifiy your claim? A reference to a trusted scientific source would also enhance the argumentation.

There a many suns and planets in the galaxy. You may have to specifiy exactly which ones you mean. Even then you will have the problem of scienfitic prove. Where is it?

It is a well known theory that the solar system was created from a cloud of gas and dust that likely were the ashes of burned out stars.  

Ok here we are getting into problems. I won't refute the motion that a planet can immigrate from one star to another allthough i see it as highly unlikely. But all our planets? Current evidence of chemical results from the planets we have samples off supports the notion that all planets were created in the system they are in today close to our sun. Of course the theory is still on weak feet but consider the odds....still, consider the principle of Ockhams Razor from the 14th century:  "Pluralitas non est ponenda sine neccesitate'', which translates as ``entities should not be multiplied unnecessarily''. Or in easier words: The easiest and more likely solution is best or closest to the truth.

Hmm...I will simply say you mean the ashes of the burned out stars here.

This sounds like the theory of panspermia and the source of life being on another planet. However in what you write is a strong error of thinking. No large body of living or dead organism like a sheep, cow, human would survive any prolonged stay in space in sufficient quality to be any good for a planet they crash on. Additionaly the claim that any previous planets were inhabitated by humans or advanced animals stays beyond any mean of prove and can thus be not part of a scientific debate.

A valid theory unfortunately till now just as unproven as any other theory regarding the origin of life. neither have you presented any varifyable evidence.

1. First of all the mountains didn't fall down from the sky. They would have left big impact craters and destroyed any life on or around them by doing so. The tilted axis there are several theories. One is that it results from the collision of the paleo-earth with an object about the size of mars that created earth and moon as we know them. Another says it is caused by the gravitational pull of the moon, another says it can be influenced by the distribution of oceans and continents on the earth.

2. Such big impacts would have made the movement more wobbly and chaotic. Only the pull of the moon is able to stabilse the inclination of earth enough for climates to stay stable enough. There is evidence from venus and mars that their axis, without big moons, is changing very often.

3. as discussed somewhere above...

Thats not explanation but pure speculation beyong any evidence and reasion. 

Simply wrong. There is no evidence you provide, it contradicts any known theory or fact, there is no trustable, scientific source for this. Additionally any known mountain or remains of mountains are clearly younger than the age of earth itselfs.

I hope I could help you clearifiy some things and sincerely hope I did not offend you. Best of regards!

Don't worry and stay calm! He may claim and hypotise anything he wants but he is then also required to deliver the verifyable prove. Cannot he not prove his theories there is no other consequence for him than to agree that what he theorises is wrong. Thats the process of science.

I said at the beginning of the post or thread that " Some of the mountains on Earth were formed from volcano eruption, others from earthquakes causing depression and elevation of the earth surface and still others were formed from various geological factors." God –be exalted – said in the Quran 35: 27

أَلَمْ تَرَ أَنَّ اللَّهَ أَنزَلَ مِنَ السَّمَاء مَاء فَأَخْرَجْنَا بِهِ ثَمَرَاتٍ مُّخْتَلِفًا أَلْوَانُهَا وَمِنَ الْجِبَالِ جُدَدٌ بِيضٌ وَحُمْرٌ مُّخْتَلِفٌ أَلْوَانُهَا وَغَرَابِيبُ سُودٌ

The explanation: (Do you [Mohammed] not see how God sends down [rain] water from the sky, and We bring forth therewith produce of various colors,--and of mountains[, also He brings forth therewith,] newly-formed mountains: white and red, of various colors, --and black brands of coal.)

   For more information refer to our free website http://universeandquran.741.com 

eanassir.

Why are you not replying to any of the points or questions I mentioned?

I would be interested in your opinion about them. Instead your only quote something you have not written yourself without commenting on it.

This thread has definatley brightened my day!

 'mountains older than the earth' wonderful!

I think what we have here is a literal interpretation of religious text. Note quotations are described as 'evidence'.

Now I'm as up for mad theories as the next man (I even believe in mantle plumes) but I do need some empirical evidence rather than a document over a thousand years old that has been through many rewrites and translations.

Therefore, I'm looking forward to the counter argument against Mathias's well thought out and articulated points...

Moved to the proper forum. Brightened my day up too and I also look forward to reasoned responses (something tells me we won't get them )

Well, I am still waiting.

Sorry, but that is pure nonsense. One cannot use interpretations of the Quran, Bible or any other religious text as scientific evidence on which to base hypothesis. You are ignorant (in the true sense of the word, not meant as an insult) of some basic, fundamental knowledge. I suggest you read the tutorials section of this site to fill in some of those gaps.

Some theories cannot be used to disprove any idea 

We cannot say that this is wrong because it does not agree with some theories; the reason is that people did not witness the creation of Earth, mountains or even the creation of themselves.

God -be exalted - said in the Quran 18: 51

{مَا أَشْهَدتُّهُمْ خَلْقَ السَّمَاوَاتِ وَالْأَرْضِ وَلَا خَلْقَ أَنفُسِهِمْ وَمَا كُنتُ مُتَّخِذَ الْمُضِلِّينَ عَضُدًا }

The explanation: (    I made them not to witness the creation of the heavens and the earth, nor their own creation; nor choose I misleaders for [My] helpers.)

Take for example the present two theories of the formation of the planets and compare them to what we are told in the Quran:

Formation ofthe Planets

So what would disprove your idea? What bit of evidence/observation/data would tell you that your idea is wrong?

I know, what about:

If mountains were meteorites, then mountain cores should show a meteorite-like structure. They don't have such a structure; they consist of folded and metamorphosed rock, intrusions and other things that are associated with plate collisions, not meteorites. Look up "orogeny". If reading doesn't satisfy you; go and look at some mountains, ancient or modern. Look at the rocks there. Record them, study them and learn. If you do that, you would not seriously think they arrive from outer space.

In the meantime, as I suggested earlier, go and fill in some of the gaps in your knowledge by reading our tutorials. We have one on meteor craters, which should interest you. If you really, truly, deeply care about this and want to know about the creation of the Earth, then you will read about "conventional" theories. If for nothing else, you can see where any flaws currently exist. If you just want to promote your religious ideas posing as science, then no-one, anywhere, will take you seriously.

When the late interpreter said about the meteorites in his book The Universe and the Quran, its first edition 1947, which is at our free website 

http://universeandquran.741.com 

 he means parts of some broken up planets. Imagine the earth will break up [on the next Doomsday] and its pieces will fall on some other newly formed planet. In this case we can accept that such huge mountainous ranges will result. The word 'meteorite' may let one imagine a small rock, and the largest discovered meteorite in Arizona is not in the size of a mountain. But by definition it is any fallen part whether small or huge; and if the earth  breaks up into 100 pieces for examples, then we may realize the idea.

The falling of such heavy pieces, on Earth and the other planets, at the early phases of their development, will cause them to be heavily fixed on the earth and have some root under the surface, and be like the peg of a tent when you hit it by a hammer to fix it in the ground.

God - be exalted - said in the Quran 78: 6-7

      أَلَمْ نَجْعَلِ الْأَرْضَ مِهَادًا .   وَالْجِبَالَ أَوْتَادًا

The explanation: (Have we not made the earth well-prepared for you [people]? And the mountains [as] pegs?)

eanassir.

http://universeandquran.741.com 

First of all I am disappointed. Instead of replying to just a single of my points you simple paste here citations that have no scientific values whatsoever and do not even bother to comment on their content.

Obviously, even if there should be mountains falling fown which is already impossible bc the only way to destroy a planet well enough to create such would also vaporise and remains of those mountiains instantly.

Then there are 2 reasons that make your theory impossible:

1. Such huge pieces falling onto earth would create large, typical and easily recognisable impact structures around your so called mountains/meoteorites.

2. The impact of such a size would vaporise your projectile leaving no traces of it whatsoever.

3. Assuming they would by some impossoble mechanism surivive the above mentioned these huge pieces would, due to their high energy, penetrate so deepy into the upper crust and lower crust or maybe even uppest parts of the mantle they might disappear from sight alltogether and be molten quickly (in geological terms).

Let me go back to reading some more and maybe i find some more points.

 Edit: I am reading that website and I see not theories but wild speculation that not only contradicts theories but also contradicts known and proven FACTS.

eanassir, could you provide links to relevant evidence, let's say in the form of radiometric dating, stratigraphy, impact crators for example, to furnish some credibility for your claims?

And can you also inform us, as to why these mountains (typically rocky in characteristic) did not incinerate as they passed through earths atmosphere?

If they were the size of lets say the Mt. Everest they are too big to be incinerated by passing thru earth's atmosphere. There would not be enough time to incinerate such a large mass. However, as I wrote above, they would vaporise on impact without and traces of them left. Because he says they are normal mountains there would also be no significant geochemical anomaly.

True Mathias, however even Mt Everest sized mountains, if they somehow managed to survive the impact, would show signs of having been baked en masse as they passed through the atmosphere. Which obviously, isn't the case...

In reply to our religious friend. No offense intended. :)

If something does not have verifyable prove nor evidence that contradicts a known and accepted theory then this counter-theory is defined as invalid. Also the absence of human witnesses cannot be used to argue in favour of your counter-theory, as we all know, there are plenty of methods to gain evidence for or against a theory by the appropiate tools and methods.

Just a quick point: I'm sure I've heard that the rocks at the summit of Mt. Everest are Limestone and contain easily identifiable sea shells.

How does that square with them falling from the sky?

Especially as certain other religous groups attempt to use the sea shells as evidence for the 'great flood'. (If you see another thread you'll see our calculations of just how much water and rain intensity would be required if such a flood was to have occured.)

Surely you can't both be right?

 The Fossils found in Mount Everest

The Fossils found in Mount Everest Such fossils may have been embedded in these mountains that came from the previously broken up planets, and when they fell on Earth, they were found embedded there. The flood or deluge of Noah, mostly; it was restricted or confined to one country: Iraq where Noah lived near Ninevah. The excavations of the old civilization in Iraq unveiled true indications of the occurrence of such deluge or flood in Iraq pertaining to the time of Prophet Noah.

eanassir.

Eanassir, why do you not reply to any of my arguments? I would be interested in how you would reply to them and the points i unvailed.

If the fossils of Everest and other places would be from any previous planets then their age would be older than that of earth. However, these rocks have been well dated at are clearly (meaning MUCH MUCH MUCH) younger than the age of the earth and thus cannot be from where you claim. Additionally there would be distinct fracture signatures in the fossils and rocks recording their violents impact history. Still, it isnt there. Therefore I must conclude Mt. Everest is from earth itself.

Lastly, it can be proven that animals found as fossils on such mountains are either related to living animals or some are still in existance. You will not disagree if I say that the animal life on any previous planet would naturally be completely different and unrelated?

Can you please give me a link or source for the flood indications in iraq? i am very interested and would like to read the article. 

Comments about some of the objections

Mathias 2007

Yesterday night, I tried to post a reply, but I couldn't; because the internet service here was very very poor; in addition the electric power shortage represents a big difficulty.

As regards the fossils: my explanation is the same that they came embedded in these mountains [and may be the skeletons of some supposed to be extinct animals like dinasaurs and the alike]; such animals might have lived in the past planets that broke up; those planets were inhabited by plants, animals and human being, and the parts of those planets settled down afterwards on the newly formed planets of the present solar system. Some parts of the destroyed past planets were large, and others were small. 

   I have read the document about thirty years ago or more of an English Archeologist with some Iraqis with him: he said that he found a thick layer of clay sedimentation which is very wide and extensive covering a large area, then he found remnans of old cities buried under that clay and soil; then when he went deeper another similar layer was found, under which he found remnants of another cities. The article was an Arabic translation; it is now not available with me; but if you have interest you may find one day that I have said is true. 

  However, I am not making a dual between me and anyone of readers; I only display the idea; many readers may be more capable of discovering that such subjects are true;  eventhough it appears contrary to some present postulations and theories.

   God – be exalted – said in the Quran 6: 105

وَكَذَلِكَ نُصَرِّفُ الآيَاتِ وَلِيَقُولُواْ دَرَسْتَ وَلِنُبَيِّنَهُ لِقَوْمٍ يَعْلَمُونَ

The explanation: (Thus do We explain the signs [of revelation] by various [ways]: that they may say [to you, Mohammed]: "You have studied [the past heavenly scriptures, and compiled the Quran accordingly!]", and that We may explain the [Quran in the future] to people who know [modern sciences. ] ) So that they will discover the truth about the Quran being from God.

   Here, I say these comments about some of the objections:

·        Earth at the early stages of its development was not exactly similar to what it is now: it was very hot; its atmosphere was not clear, but smoke was filling it which was a mixture of many gases. These gases started to separate because of their different weight ( or specific gravity), so that the light gas rose up and the heavier below it until seven stratified heavens (the stratosphere) were formed high in the atmosphere above the level of the cloud. Below the cloud it is called air which is a mixture of gases. The cloud is the limit separating the air from the upper stratified gaseous heavens or firmament; the cloud is driven by the wind, whereas higher there is no wind. God – be exalted – said in the Quran 41 11-12

 (ثمّ استوى إلى السماءِ و هي دُخانٌ فقالَ لَها و لِلأرضِ ائتِيا طَوعاً أو كَرهاً قالتا أتَينا طائعِين. فقضاهنّ سبعَ سماواتٍ في يومَينِ..)

 The explanation: (Then He tended to [build*] the sky and it had been smoke; He said to it and to the earth, “Come, both of you, willingly or loath.” The two said, “We [all] have come obedient.” And He separated them into seven firmaments in two days.)

 [*i.e. to make the layers of the gaseous sky distinctive and to build them, or to arrange them as successive layers.]

 The interpretation:

 - (Then He tended to [build] the sky) means: the sky of the Earth,

 - (And it had been smoke) means the smoke that emerged from the Earth which was in fact a mixture of seven gases,

 - (He said to it) i.e. the sky [or the gaseous heaven]

 - (and to the earth, “Come, both of you,) to the gravitation

 - (willingly or loath.” The two said, “We [all] have come obedient” And He separated them) and made them

 - (seven firmaments); The explanation: He separated that smoke, and made it seven layers

 - (in two days), i.e. within a period of two thousand years; that is because one day of the Hereafter equals one thousand of our years."

   And God –be exalted –says in the Quran, 67: 3

(الّذي خَلَقَ سبعَ سماواتٍ طِباقاً ، ما تَرى في خَلقِ الرحمانِ مِنْ تَفاوُتٍ)

 The explanation: ( [God] Who has created seven stratified heavens ; you cannot see any non-observance in the creation of the Most Gracious!(                                             God –be exalted –said in the Quran, 2: 164 

(و تصريفِ الرّياحِ و السّحابِ المُسخَّرِ بينَ السّماءِ و الأرضِ لآياتٍ لِقومٍ يَعقِلون.)

 The explanation: (And in the changing of winds, and in clouds that are subjected [into His service] between the sky [or heaven] and the earth, are signs to people who have sense.)

 Here, God –be exalted –explained that the cloud is between the sky and the earth. So, the position of the sky is from the cloud up, while the position of the air is from the cloud down. Therefore, the wind belongs or related to the earth and not to the sky."

  Click on:  The gaseous heavens  

·        The crust of Earth was relatively thinner, its core was more hot, and Earth was revolving faster than it is now around itself. After 2000 years, the crust became thicker, the stratified layers of the atmosphere became distinct  and the sky was clear of the smoke.

·        The mountains landed and settled heavily, and like pegs, these mountains had roots under the ground. See my previous thread or post.

·        Then when temperature was lower and conditions became better and rain came down, the plant and vegetation appeared at first; because the seeds and branches embedded in those mountains, which came from the broken up planets that had been inhabited,  started to grow by God's decree.

·        Then from the decayed corpses of animals and men, embedded in those mountains which had been parts of the destroyed past planets; God – be exalted – started to create various species of animals: a male and a female of every species, to reproduce and fill the earth. Then God created three human races each in a region of Earth, and followed them later by the creation of Adam and Eve the parents of the Caucasian race; and all of them are human beings. Adam and Eve were created in a garden on one of the Earth mountains, not in the Garden or Paradise of Heaven.

·        Our Earth together with the rest of planets and the Sun will be destroyed in the next Doomsday, as had the previous solar system been destroyed in the last Doomsday.

·        A new earth and new planets will issue from the generalized explosion of our Sun, and a new solar system will be formed after the new earth and planets will be attracted by the nearest Sun; and so on every solar system being destroyed another one will issue instead of it.

As God – be exalted – said in the Quran 14: 48

يَوْمَ تُبَدَّلُ الأَرْضُ غَيْرَ الأَرْضِ وَالسَّمَاوَاتُ وَبَرَزُواْ للّهِ الْوَاحِدِ الْقَهَّارِ

 The explanation: (On the day when the earth shall be exchanged by another earth, and the heavens too; and [all] shall come forth unto God, the One, the Irresistible.)

It is mentioned in the Old Testament, in the Prophecy of Isaiah, chapter 56: 17

  “For, behold, I create new heavens and a new earth; and the former things shall not be in remembrance, and they shall not come upon the heart.”

 Click on:

Formation of new planets

·        The present planets of the solar system are inhabited, having plant, animal and human beings serving God, just like us; they know God the Creator, but they do no know Moses, Jesus or Mohammed. They have their own prophets. They have their own languages, in which God revealed to them some Heavenly Books other than the Torah (included in the Old Testament), the Gospel and the Quran; to teach them by their prophets.                                         Click on:                                                                                                                  The planets are inhabited

·        There will be in the future (may be sooner) a meeting between the inhabitants of Earth and the inhabitants of some of these planets (Mars is the most anticipated)                                                                                                     God –be exalted – said: in the Quran,42: 29

(و مِنْ آياتِهِ خَلْقُ السماواتِ و الأرضِ و ما بَثَّ فيهِما مِنْ دابّةٍ و هو على جَمعِهم إذا يَشاءُ قديرٌ .)

 The explanation: (And [one] of His signs is the creation of the heavens and the earth, and what He has spread abroad therein of beasts [: moving creatures]; and He is All-Able to gather them if He wills.)

  The interpretation:

 --( And [one] of His signs is the creation of the heavens and the earth) It means: Among His signs that indicate His existence is the creation of the terrestrial planets including the earth,

 --( and what He has spread abroad therein of beasts [: moving creatures] ) i.e. the creatures [:animals and human beings] that move on these planets including the Earth.

 --( and He is All-Able to gather them if He wills.)

   Here, there is a clear declaration about the possibility of meeting between the inhabitants of some of the planets and the inhabitants of Earth. But if God –be exalted – meant by that the ‘gathering-together’ of the Judgment Day, when souls will be gathered together for judgment, then He would not mention that with (if He wills), but the Quranic revelation would come in an affirmation form, as it is noticed in many Quranic revelations concerning the gathering and congregation on the Day of the ‘gathering-together for Judgment then the reward or punishment; e.g. His saying –be highly exalted –in the Quran, 36: 51

(و نُفِخَ في الصُّورِ فَإذا هُمْ مِنَ الأجداثِ إلى رَبِّهم يَنْسِلُون .)

 The explanation: ( And when the ‘Horn’* will be blown; behold, they will go up –from the graves – in crowds, to their Lord [: to the gathering-together in the space.] )

   [*i.e. the cold crust that will be formed for the sun at the end of its life, and the blowing will be that of the gases rushing out through a crack in the crust, resembling the horn, in which ancients used to blow.]  

   [A Comment by the translator:  Notice, dear reader, that the external shape of the horn  [of animals] is like volcano rocks which result from the cooling of the volcanic lava.]

In addition, God –be exalted – specified this meeting with His Ability to accomplish it, and that is by saying قدير  i.e. (All-Able); because it is very difficult to mankind at the present to make such a meeting without some aid for that. But nothing is difficult to God, the Glorious, the Almighty Who is All-Able to gather between the people of Earth and the inhabitants of some other planets like Mars for example, in this life of the World before the Hereafter; and that is by inspiring man the science and knowledge to achieve his goodly ambition to explore the unknown in the horizons of the heavens and earth.   

Click on:

 An anticipated meeting between the inhabitants of Earth and the inhabitants of some other planets 

eanassir.

      http://universeandquran.741.com 

Not all substances are inflammable

   Not all substances are inflammable; but potassium and some other elements may inflame on contact with the atmosphere; and a meteor will form in such instances.

   On the other hand, a small meteorite may burn and smashes before reaching the Earth surface; but large one will reach the ground, and will be there on the Earth surface.

   There has been some exaggeration of this by some readers; don't they see that rockets and spacecrafts going up and down, and many meteorites that have been discovered falling on the Earth surface?

eanassir.

http://universeandquran.741.com

I can clearly see now that you are not willing to run a decent scíentific debate. Even though shown that fossils cannot be from there you claim from you insist on your proven wrong idea without giving scientific support to it. As you may or may not have noticed we are a geology forum. This is not a place for purely religious speculations, especially not if the author and poster of such, you, is not even willing to enter a debate over his ideas. You simply keep posting citations. I strongly recommend you consider what is right. As you should know the earth and its gravitation and anything else can clearly and easily be explained only by true Pastafarians. As Kansas Graduate Student of Physics of Oregon State University has scientificly proven the world and all its belonging have been created only by the great Flying Spaghetti Monster, you may also call HIM the Spaghedeity. To show we will discuss gravitation and global warming but let me re-iterate any fact that may still remain unexplainable hereafter are due to the fact that HIM was heavenly drunk when creating the world.

Gravitation: As well know people in the ancient times were smaller than today. Today, a lot of people are really big and fat. Why is this important? Simple. HIM himself is gravitation! With his nuddly appendages he holds down to everything and everybodies feet and pulls them down to earth! So how we prove this? In the dark ages people where few and small, today many and big. In the dark ages we had no space programm as gravitation was simply too strong to allow any man made object to leave our planet. Today, with so many people, there are fewer nuddly appendes with which to hold on to things, thus space flight is enabled. As you may recognise he falsified our historic record - the fact that there is no space flight or high technology in the dark ages - is the direct prove history has been faked by HIM. May you still have doubt remember HIM was heavenly drunk all the time.

Global Warming: HIM loves pirates. They look cool and always were true followers of HIM. When comparing the, in this case not falsified recods - we know because he loves Pirates - that there is s direct, inverse corellation between the declining number of real pirates and the global mean temperature. Since the pirates began dwindling average global temperture has increased. You dont believe it? You can easily prove such connection by some simply library research or by inventing some numbers of your own - HIM will make sure you will still get the right results, if not, sorry he was heavenly drunk that moment. He drinks a lot by the way.

As you and anyone else may now recognised by demonstration on these two matters the FSM is the one and only true creator of the world and everything else. He even created all the other gods and religious but he quickly saw it was a bad and terrible idea. Yes, he was and is drunk, too. Be HIM be blessed!

For more enlightenment please refer to: http://www.venganza.org/

(A note to the mods: I couldn't help it anymore trying to talk to someone who doesn't even want to discuss but simply expect others to say yes and amen to what he wrote. He makes no effort to support his ideas, he doesn't even comment on what he citates from another author and ignores everything posted that doesn't suite his state of mind. He will see that FSM is the only way... :)

 Addition: As naturally none of us here speak arabic i assume I got in touch with a friend of mine who understands some.

That translation is not completely correct. As a matter of fact is translates more to:

And he cast/put the mountains on earth to make it more balanced; lest it should move irregularly with you.

Yadda-yadda-yadda eanassir. Actually, the sacred holy texts of Hans Christian Anderson - Hollow'd be his Pumpkin - prove that Jack the Giant produced all of the mountains on Earth. They are in fact gargantuan coprolites. As such, they bear much in common with your interpretation...

There will be no more reply for you, mathias2007, other than this reply

   I have now realized your sanctification from your mockery [from the start] and from your blasphemy concerning your Creator. Therefore, I am quit of such words that you said concerning God - be exalted.

   By now, I have displayed the idea; and anyone who desire to study this subject, he can refer to our site:

http://universeandquran.741.com 

   You mentioned some translation of the meaning of the Quran; so I say:

   "

   The Quran is the word of God in Arabic, but the translation is the word of the translator, according to his understanding and his linguistic capability. Any translation is not the Quran. The Quran cannot be translated because the translation will never be like the Arabic text of the Quran. This is true also concerning the translations of the Torah [included in the Old Testament], as well as the Gospel. So the Quran is in Arabic only; in other language these are only translations of the explanation of the Quran. I can give many examples of the different versions of the Bible and the different translations of the meaning of the Quran.

   Therefore, we should honestly mention the original Quranic revelation, then accompany it with its translated explanation in any language, which will never give the exact and the whole meaning and details; because the Quran is concise, and is miraculous in a way that its meaning and detailed explanation will branch and rebranch, and many new meanings will stem and appear every day and every generation.

For example: if we like to mention the Quranic revelation 46: 10

{قُلْ أَرَأَيْتُمْ إِن كَانَ مِنْ عِندِ اللَّهِ وَكَفَرْتُم بِهِ }

Then we may give its English explanation: (Say [O Prophet, to them]: "Tell me your opinion: If the [Quran] be from God, and you unbelieve in it [: what will your fate be in the Hereafter, before God?] ) "

eanassir.

http://universeandquran.741.com 

I am afraid dispite speaking both english we are speaking two very different languages here.

Cum hoc ergo propter hoc

"We cannot say that this is wrong because it does not agree with some theories; the reason is that people did not witness the creation of Earth, mountains or even the creation of themselves".

Ok, we didn't witness the formation of the earth, but if we are not to believe things that we didn't witness or indeed are unable to comment on those things we didn't witness then surely no text trying to explain the origins of the Earth is valid. This includes the explanations given to us in the Quran, Torah, and old testament as all of these texts were written by humans.

Why then are you willing to use the text written by a human as your explanation, when those who wrote it were barely closer to the apparent moment of creation than you or I?

The theory is not a law or a rule

   I don't mean to refuse any theory; but the speculation, the postulation, the hypothesis, and the theory are not like the law or the rule. That's because when I said: most of mountins were the parts of some destroyed planets in the past, some of the members said: this is wrong because it does not agree with such and such of the present theories.

eanassir.

Actually people are saying you are wrong, not because it doesn't agree with current thinking, but because you haven't presented any evidence for your idea.

Translations of a holy text are not scientific evidence. As people have said, if mountains came from space, then they would show evidence of this. What is this evidence and where can it be observed?

Jon, is his divine wisdom granted to him by himself the burden of evidence is solely on your side. Then again any evidence against his theory is naturally false evidence as only evidence in favour of his theory can be true. Ergo his theory is true even without giving evidence. This is not a science debate, he has an opinion and expects us to share it with him. He is just another religious fanatic who cannot face the fact he may be wrong and even if it is only a minute and tiny detail. I gave all Quran citations here to an egpytian friend of mine who confirmed most translations are so far off the truth that there is no point in debating anyways.