GeologyRocks

As I understood you do not have any prior knowledge of geology nor economic geology, right? I consider it to be rather hard to impossible for you to just get 1 or 2 good books and then go about to find an iron or copper deposit - especially since most of these will require large scale sampling, mapping, chemical analyses, etc. If it would be so simply everyone would be doing it, right? Many copper or iron ores look so not special, any non-expert would simply throw the samples away. Am afraid you need either a full semester of economic geology or a real ore expert at your side to guide you.

In terms of mining. The principial technology or method to mine for iron, copper, gold, limestone, gravel and whatnot are similiar in an open pit. You create a block model based on the drilling programms and mapping. Then get a mining engineer to play the technological approach to it. OK, very simplified.

Hey Mathias2007,

What a coincedence!  I found this forum via your lostgeologist blog.  Anyway, please take a look at my threads on this mining forum:

http://www.ironminers.com/mineforum/viewtopic.php?t=21106

 After perusing those two forums, you should have a better idea of what I'm trying to accomplish here. (I am "woodspeck" there)  What you describe above in terms of mining refer to commercial methods of large-scale extraction of different minerals/ores/etc. but I am interested in small-scale mining methods that can be primarily done by individuals or small groups.  With that said, from what I have been told by mining specialists, the methods for mining iron, copper, etc. are NOT the same.  Similiar somewhat but not the same.  But anyway, I want to focus solely on Geology here since my focus on that forum is only Mining.

Even if I did this, the teacher would give me a syllabus with books that he/she would teach from, right?  All I am attempting to do here is cut out the middleman, whom in this case is the professor.   Besides, Geology as a independent area of science is less than 230 years old, while locating copper, iron, and other ores, then mining them, and performing metalworking techniques on them is hundreds of years old.  There is most definitely a way to do this (locate them = modern day geology) is a primitive way.  I just need to find out how.  And I'd like you experts here to list some books that specifically teach about geology for iron and copper and then I can read it.  If it makes sense, then it makes sense.  If not then I ask questions here, receive knowledge, and finish the books.  I want the only thing to be lacking in my area is real life experience.  I'd like to learn what I need to know from books at the present time.

 I'm looking for answer akin to: 

"You can read these books ___ & ___ & ___ etc. etc. and those books will teach you about geology for locating iron and copper primatively for individuals/small groups.  You still need some experience in the field with an expert but after having read these books then after you get some real world experience actually doing some geology work you will be good to go." 

That's the kind of response I hope to receive here. 

EDIT: In Germany at university the science is not taught from the book. There are no reading asignments usually. A lot of the practical knowledge and the little gems that give you the edge are in no books.

 OK; I get your idea a bit better now and see you are very motivated. Well, uni is much more than reading some books, most if not the most important part are field trips, excursions, mapping courses, etc. Everything with hands on and seeing it for real in the wild.

As you do want smth small, that at the extreme a handful of people could mine in small amount, is a deposit at the surface that can be mine with hand tools.  Easy in terms of tools would be bog iron ore and bean iron ores that have been mined in ancient times to get iron. The iron content compared is relatevely low with maybe 20% but its easy to do.

I assume you do not wish to travel around the globe to get some ore.

You may need the following:

 First - a detailed geological map with description of hawaii. scale 1 to 50.000 is normal in the US i believe but if you find some at 1 to 25.000 or even 1 to 10.000 is even better.

1. one or two or more, the more the better, about the regional geology of hawaii. knowledge of local geology is everything in the hunt for ore.

2. smth general of economic geology. maybe "understanding mineral deposits" by misra, or, "ore geology and industrial minerals" by evans, or, "introducton to ore forming processes" by robb, maybe better all of them.

3. something specific about sedimentary or vein type ores, these are small but usually the easiest to mine for a small crew by hand.

4. a good book about basic geology. a big one. there are several good ones in the US. maybe "understanding earth" by press and siever.

5. smth like "economic evaluations in exploration" by wellmer can be useful.

6. i like "introduction to mineral exploration" by moon. gives advises on planing, sampling and case studies.

7. "anatomy of a mine from prospect to production" fromt he US department of agriculture from 1985. available as PDF for download. google should find it. very broad and aimed at BIG mine, but the ideas are the same even for you, though at much, much smaller scale of course.

equipment: boots, helmet, hammer, geologist compass (know how to use one?), gps, topographic maps at 1 to 10.000, sample bags and a lot of time outside walking. thats why you need good boots.

someone to test the iron content for you. sadly there are no reliable field test to determine the grade easily. but there are simple field quick assays. best and cheapest is this PDF  http://userpage.chemie.fu-berlin.de/~mininst/quickassay.pdf

oh, you need a good book on Mineralogy and Petrology, esp. for field recognition. Hmm...the books I have and know are only available in German language. Maybe someone else knows whats good and common in the US:

You will spend 1...rather 2 months reading  and researching for maps and local info, thats usually the hardest to find even if living almost on site but thats the price for success. You can skip most reading but the less you know, the less likely timely success. Most ore deposits in the past were found by stupid luck or ignorance. Till 100 or 200 years ago it was also almost impossible to test for elements so smelting and alloying was usually plain luck and test and error.

What I would do:

1. Get the geological map. 2. study and and read the acompanying booklet 3. go to libabry and geological survey and get every local information on geology and esp. mineral deposits thats available 4. make an exploration strategy. first short exursion, then longer sampling on good looking sites. 

PHewww...its 2 AM almost here. Hope i could help. need more?

I have further questions for you, Mathias but I just wanted to specifically ask for help from other experts here on this forum regarding listing either a couple or the absolute best book on Petrology and the best book on Mineralogy in the English language since Mathias only knows about German texts in these areas.  

Firstly, just so I understand you correctly, you wish to mine copper and iron ore but then what do you wish to do with it?

I hate to be the one to throw another few spanners in the works but I can see further problems with your idea.

The first problem that I can see is that if you are based on Hawaii and don't wish to travel to a mainland country then there could be a problem with finding suitable deposits. Hawaii is composed of basalt, specifically Ocean Island Basalt (OIB) and, unless there are areas where some fractionation has taken place (a process by which the rarer elements become concentrated), all you are likely to find is hard, black rock.

The second problem is that mining and ore exploitation is big business. The major players spend millions, if not billions of pounds/dollars investigating and prospecting for sources of ore around the world. I appreciate there are differences of scale between what they do and what you are proposing but finding something which they don't already have some rights to would be difficult.

The third problem is that, depending on the local laws, the stuff in the ground doesn't belong to just anyone. There may be local laws prohibiting any investigation or exploitation (such as national parks) and even if there isn't then the local government will demand a payment to allow you to mine and will require you to submit various evidence that your plans won't damage the environment, pose a safety hazard, won't be unsightly for the area etc.

Also, it's a common misconception that all ores are found in mountains and mountainous areas. It is simply not true. The presence of ore is a function of the geological history of the area, potentially going back as far as 3.5 billion years so consider widening your search area away from mountian belts.

My final point relates to my first point. If your intention is just to extract some ore for your own use (such as base material for an artistic project) then I'd suggest looking for bog iron as Matthias recommends. If, however, you are planning a commercial venture then I think the odds are stacked against you. My advice in this case would be to go to university, get a degree in mining/economic/engineering geology, go and work for a mining company for a few years to learn everything you can and then, when you feel ready, strike out on your own.

Sorry for being a bit of a downer on something you are obviously so enthusiastic about.

In terms of copper, Hawaii may indeed be a...problem. But iron could work. Your chance might be the beaches. The rocks of hawaii might contain magnetite, a magnetic iron mineral, get a big magnet and stark criss-crossing the beach. Maybe there are some coastal magnetite placers.

Not true.  I do not mind travelling at all.  But as I often state, this is a research project that I take very seriously and my emphasis is not necessarily whether I will actually do it or not but rather focusing on possessing the knowledge to be able to do it if I wanted to.

So, after reading your post and your recommendations, which are to obtain and read a number of books AND maps then it seems to me that you read both my posts at the ironminers website and that you realize that my focus is to do everything from scratch.  Am I correct in stating all that?

If so, then I have another question for you regarding your recommendation that I study 1. a geological map of Hawai’i and that I also study 2. the regional geology of Hawai’i.  So, as I stated, in everything I research and study I like to approach it and understand it from the viewpoint that what if hypothetically I woke up one day and I was naked in the wilderness, how would I get from that bare point of having nothing to being able to (in this case) know enough about geology to locate metal ores.  Then, of course, my knowledge of mining would come in but I’m only focusing on Geology here on this forum once again.  So, I understand what you are saying when you recommend the various books about Geology/Petrology/Mineralogy to me.  You recommend those texts because that is the general knowledge that anyone going from absolutely nothing to being able to locate metal ores in the wild would need to know.  Now, when you recommend studying the maps, you are saying that what I need to study is NOT something that is general to everyone rather it is general to wherever it is that I will be.  In my hypothetical scenario, it would be referring to wherever it is (what location) that I would be waking up nude at without anything but my expert knowledge of geology (and other areas) to build on.  Am I correct in all this so far?  I just want to be sure that I am understanding you correctly.

I say this because initially when I read your post, I was a bit confused.  I wondered, “why does he recommend that I study maps if he understands the idea of what I really want to do here??”  I was thinking to myself  ->  If the experts regarding Geology were placed in a scenario like the one I continually approach my research/study from, naturally they would have all of the knowledge of the books that you recommended to me in their heads innately.  BUT what about maps?  I think I have been under-estimating maps.  I thought that knowledge of the texts that you recommended on their own would be enough to allow me to be able to locate ores but it seems that what you are saying or rather implying is that if one day I were placed in a situation like I hypothetically suppose then even if I through all the texts that you mentioned and understand them well, I still will NOT be able to find ores IF I am not familiar with local geology of my area specifically.  What I mean by this is that a geology expert in one location, say Hawai’i, will NOT be able to apply his knowledge to another state such as say Mississippi.  The general knowledge that the texts that you recommended would definitely help him a lot but without knowledge of the local geology of Mississippi then his findings would be down to pure luck.  This is because the books you recommended teach principles but the maps you recommend show patterns based on years of trial and error, exploration, and etc.  Therefore if all the maps in the USA were destroyed in a huge fire then to construct new maps from scratch would entail having a Geologist expert from each state in the country to explain where ores are located in each state.  I really hope I am making sense here...  I’m trying to explain what I’m thinking but I’m not sure if it is coming out correctly.  I feel like if the texts disappear then those with the knowledge in those text can easily pass down their knowledge and keep the discispline alive but if the maps disappear then those who know where things(ores) are from experience by constantly referring to maps will be able to find ores more easily in their particular area of work.  Or I could be totally wrong, maybe maps aren’t that important at all and the texts are what I should really be focusing on.  Can you clarify please because I know I am just rambling so I’ll stop now.

 I don’t know how to use a “geologist compass” but I can learn.  I assume the gps is just in case I get lost?  :D  And I’m not sure what “topographic maps at 1 to 10.000” mean...?

Use it to make a metal working shop (blacksmith) from the ground up.  (but that's another forum)

 I don’t mind travelling.

 True, but my focus is the process of how to actually do this for right now.

Hmm, I didn’t know that.  I’m glad you informed me of this.  So, I guess a search on Google for “locations of ores” would show me some potential other locations of ores besides mountainous areas?  

This is only a research project so it is nothing commercial.  Just me being curious but who knows I might actually try it or at least inspire someone else to try it. 

Any and all advice/pointers/suggestions is ALWAYS welcome!  I just want to continue to learn until I have no more questions left in my head. :)  

I didn't have time to read any of your posts on ironminers. My thesis and watching soccer is taking me time.

Maps are the basis of any geological research or project. It may the most abstract theoretical or microscopic question, but without maps to put it into the real world context the research is only half of what it could be.  It is not for nothing that the first geological map of Great Britain is still heralded as a great achievement today. The map lay the foundation to systemetically explore the geology. Now recognising rocks and fossils and minerals is essential even without maps. But only the map gives you the key to make predictions! And only that preditability allows you to search systematically for anything you want. Be it ore, fossils, oil, gas or stone age tools.

Now, besides maps I consider most important an understanding of geochronology/stratigraphy and plate tectonics/structural geology. Chronology and stratigraphy teach about the geological record of time. (thats an easy description only) When thinking geology you need to keep in mind the concept of deep time. Not years or decades but 100s and 1000s and millions or even billions of years. When you realise this you see that everything moves. You start seeing mountains not as fixed. They move, they change, they can even completely disappear in a blink of an eye - geologically speaking.

Plate tectonics drive it all. Not just the change (which is also helped by the climate, life itself, the sun, etc.). Everything is somehow connected to tectonics. It drives mountain belt across oceans, it dictates where volcanoes are, it decided what species is seperated from its kind to become a new species, it influences climate, and and and.

This may hardly seem connected to your question, but, as you said, you want to be able to find ore when waking up without tools in the middle of nowhere. A thorough understanding of these concepts is perhaps vital to understand the system behind the geology. One of my professors likes to say that there are no conincidences in geology. Everything you see around you has a reason. There is a reason why one hill is rounder or smoother than the other, there is a reason why the river flows here and not there, etc. pp.

Back to maps and regional geology. The knowledge of regional geology is to be applied world wide. We have a class at uni called historical and regional geology. It discusses the geological make up of every continent over the passage of deep time. Thats why its regional AND historical geology. In your place, lets say I wake up in a dry and hot desertlike place. Using the sun and stars I could only predict how far north or south I am. But that is not enough to help me. Now i look at the rocks. Lets say I find the typical rocks of a greenstone belt. Compinging this with the climate at the place will tell me that i am very likely somewhere in north-western Australia. Same climate but I find sand with indicator minerals of diamond or even diamond itself, I am likely in Namibia (thats in both cases highly simplified). Thats why just knowing the books about petrology and mineralogy is not a gurantee to find what you search for. 

It is true that when I begin a project about a place I have not been to before that the first thing I do is to go to the map collection and get a map of the region. A geological map at best. A topographic mag may give good clues from the geomorphology of  region though. For my thesis I had to travel to France. I am investigating rocks and formations which I already knew from a previous project. But it saves me a lot of time and hardship in the field to read texts, mostly papers, maps and the stratigraphic column of the region. Without is like trying to find the statue of liberity blind-folded and without asking anyone for help. It would be pure luck. Equipped with the regional knowledge I can than systematically devise a plan for my project. Otherwise I would first spend weeks or maybe months mapping the region in detail just to find out what the place looks like. Even the best books about local geology are greatly augmented if they have detailed maps of the region. A simple map can tell you more than dozens of books.

Of course I could go and work on a mining project in lets say the Mississippi region. The basic principles are all the same but I am out of context which I need to find first to be working efficiently. Either I read maps and books about the regional geology or do it the hard way and map it myself at first. I work a lot with limestones. Here in Germany I know immediately where to go to find them to, i.e. make burnt lime or cement. In France, without a map, I am greatly hindered in finding the quality I may need. Eventually I will because I know how to read the landscape and rocks around me but it is much faster and accurate with a good map.

Maps have a scale, usually given as 1:XXXXX. 1 to 10.000 means that one cm on the maos equals 10.000 centimeters (100 m) in reality. A map at 1to 50.000 can of course not depict as much detail as one at 1 to 10.000. A cm on the map would be 500m in real. Try depicting a seam of coal in it thats only 10 m thick. It willl usually be omitted and only mentioned in the map description.

The GPS is the easiest and cheapest way nowawadays to quickly make a geological map. With a decent device that gives 5 m accuracy you can quickly make a map on the basis of an existing topographic map. Note the coordinates of some rocks and place them onto the topo-map. Its not so much about finding it back than about reconstruction the underlying structure of the location. A simply surface geological map allows me to take a look underneath for, depending on the quality of the map, for a few meters of even several 100 meters if I know the local stratgraphic column. I dont need any seismic for that. 

Also al8302 is right. Ore can be anywhere. Even far, far away from any mountain. Ore is a function of the geological past of a region. Not of its surface topography (there are very few partiall exceptions). I dont even like working in mountains. It is exhausting and so complicated to piece those deformed and fractured pieces of history back together.I prefer the seaside or rolling hills. But the Alps? Himalaya? No thanks.

I think you might start to understand why my very first reply was a bit reluctant. If you really want to have to knowledge to find ore on any place of the planet, than, I am afraid, you will have to get a degree in geology. If instead you focus on a single region, lets say Hawaii, you could become a real local expert within maybe 1 or 2 years even without any university training. A lot of people under-estimate what university does. It does not simple teach knowledge of facts from some books, it teaches how to think and how to test your hypothesis. And that thinking makes the difference.

Anyways. For going ahead I recommend either to focus on a small region or in a single time of ore type, like bog iron or bean iron ore. Take a look here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bog_iron

Ok, so basically what you are saying is that after I read all of the books that you recommended (and probably a couple others) and then thereafter if I am put into the scenario that I suppose waking up without anything in the wilderness but my knowledge of geology/petrology/mineralogy then I WOULD, in fact, be able to do the same work that I would do if I had the maps in my possession, right? Because you are saying that I would simply have to do the work that the map(s) would have already done for me. I would have to map out the area by myself and notate my work. My work would eventually become a map. So, maps basically are timesavers. Without maps, you would do the same work but much much much slower because I would be retracing what others have done before me.

BUT

Since my plan is “Preparing for the Worst” then by me taking your advice and studying a specific area or actually two areas (Mississippi and Hawai’i) then after I have a good grasp of the relevant geologic maps for Mississippi and Hawai’i then if I am ever put into the situation that I suppose then my tasks will not entail re-mapping out the areas but rather only actually making new maps. Maps are the equivalent of the elders of a particular rural village teaching the young ones in his charge about the landscape orally. If that makes any sense... That example helps me to understand how maps would be recreated from scratch if any expert (the one I hope to become) were put into the situation I suppose.

And that reinforces what I summarize above. By paying attention to the words/teachings of the elders of the village when they teach that certain areas have within the history of the village yielded certain materials (ores, oil, stones, etc.) (these teachings = modern day maps), then those teachings (maps) will better guide my exploration efforts so that I will be able to more easily and quickly find the materials, ores, minerals that I am searching for.

Does the book recommendations that you advised me to read include these important topics/concepts that you feel I should know well? If they don’t then please list the best text(s) that I should read to understand what you speak of here.

I am glad you mentioned this because I want to make sure that I know all that I need to know for what I want to do. I don’t wish to know everything but only that which is important and relevant to what I desire to do here.

Regarding what you wrote about using the sun and stars to indicate how far north or south I would be, I never knew I could use the sun/stars to indicate my location in any way. This may be another area that I did not add to my survival list. What field of study is this? You don’t have to list any accompanying books if you don’t know any because I can always find a forum specific to that area and ask further there. I ask this because while I am sure that I won’t need to know everything about whatever field of study this is you speak of, apparently there are areas of this field of study that I need to aware of to strengthen my knowledge base should one day my supposed situation actually come to fruition.

That is what I’ll do. Focus solely on Mississippi at first since that is where I will retire to but also Hawai’i since I am currently spending a lot of time here at the moment.

More to come: The above post was a respone to your post but I have more to say concerning what I need to do from here. I would type it now but I’m not sure how to say it so I need to get my thoughts together for a couple of hours. I’ll be right back.

Hmm... Where to go from here? What to start on? Well, as I mentioned in my previous above post, I’m curious to what other fields or specific areas of different fields you think I should dive into. I say this because of my ignorance when you mentioned using the stars/sun to indicate my location. I was thinking, “I should learn this but are there also other essentials that I may not be aware that you would like to recommend to me as well...??”. So, for now, I think what I will do is obtain all the books you mentioned and go through them. Also I will obtain a map like the one you recommend about Mississippi and Hawai’i. After I have those books, while going through them if I have any questions, I will post them here for explanation and to get understanding. After all this is done, then I should have a better idea of how I should go about doing what I want to do.

Now, I know you advised to focus on a specific region or ore and I stated that I will focus on two areas BUT I still will be researching how to find other ores that I will need for whatever contraption that I will need to dissect and know how it works from the inside out from scratch. For instance, if I happen to be dissecting “how computers work” (i.e. a laptop), there are materials/ores/etc. present in laptop computers that aren’t found in Hawai’i or Mississippi but I will still research how to find and obtain those materials from scratch. My emphasis won’t necessarily be on actually going to another country to really perform the research but I will research how to do find it and work with the materials exactly as if I was going to really travel abroad and find and work with the materials. (i.e. aluminum, titanium, etc.)

You can let me know if you think I’m missing something or have more to add. I’m going to get started ordering these texts from the Library of Congress via Inter-library from my university library here. Also, I am still waiting for another expert here to list the best book(s) in the English language on Mineralogy and Petrology. Anyone??? Or do I need to go to a forum specifically centered on Mineralogy and another forum specifically focused on Petrology??

Does the book recommendations that you advised me to read include these important topics/concepts that you feel I should know well? If they don’t then please list the best text(s) that I should read to understand what you speak of here.

No. Some recommendations that I can think of ine nglish language: Sedimentology and Sequence Stratigraphy by Catueanu (thats heavy stuff even for me), The Geology of Stratigraphic Sequences by Miall (also heavy stuff even for me), Geological Structures and Maps by Lisle, Basic Geological Mapping by Barnes et al., The Mapping of Geological Structures by McClay (last 3 all basics, one of them is enough), Structural Geology of Rocks and by Davis (thats a bit more advanced) and 3D-Structural Geology by Groshong (thats heavy stuff).

Only mentioned that I know exist as English language versions.

Regarding what you wrote about using the sun and stars to indicate how far north or south I would be, I never knew I could use the sun/stars to indicate my location in any way. This may be another area that I did not add to my survival list. What field of study is this? 

No idea. It's basic stuff. To be honest I taught me the sun and star stuff myself ( still practising) but some UNIs have it as part of their intro field courses. Maybe check for navigational sciences or marine sciences. These ppls need it the most. Some basic map reading and compass skills and orietation skill are simple expected from geologists.

Now before I continue, I'm not sure if I asked already or not but I just want to make sure that before I start all of this that YOU, in fact, do know how to locate ANY ore, right? I ask this because my purpose in reading all of the books that you recommend is to be able to find specific ores.  My plan is to read the texts you recommend and then maybe you can test me or assess my progress to get a picture of where I stand in my progressions and then you can let me know when you think I'm ready to move on.  At that point, I'll be able to locate ores and I will be able to focus on the mining forum and start building up my mining knowledge of whatever particular ore I'm working on at that moment. 

I think I will start with focusing on locating iron and limestone. So, at the very least, you are able to locate these two ores easily, right? At this point, when I read these books, I will be focusing on only what pertains to me locating iron and limestone. Everything else might be important to me later but is extraneous for the time being. But as long as I know that you know how to find these two ores (iron & limestone) then I'm sure you'll be able to guide me as I navigate these books in my search for knowledge so I can attain an understanding of how to find these two ores. So, with all that said, you do know how to find any ore, right?

I'm pretty confident I could find limestone, just look for the blue on a geological map.

Iron ore is trickier and depends on the grade of ore. I could find banded ironstones but personally would struggle to find haematite ('classic' iron ore)

As for the others, such as bauxite (Aluminimum), I'd need to do some reading up myself.

Regarding gold, silver, platinum etc.if I knew where to find a ready stash of them then I wouldn't be wasting my time on here!

As was mentioned in a previous post, if it was that easy to find and exploit the ore bodies then we wouldn't all be here with day jobs!

That said, I do know where to find loads of diamonds...just a shame that De Beers beat me to S. Africa!

I've read some of the posts and there's a lot of good advice.  My only comment is to say that, even with a good foundation in geology you're not going to find much which hasn't already been found (and certainly not in economically viable amounts).  If, as you're indicating, you have very little knowledge of geology, I think maybe you should be thinking of taking a different direction from trying to locate ores.  In other words I would suggest you forget the idea of possibly making a fortune and just get into geology for the sake of it being a thoroughly fascinating subject.

geodigger, you should start by some reading the books already mentioned. simply as that.

Then, I warn you, you chose to go into the geology of mineral deposits, so you probably picked one of the most all-encompassing fields of geology. Instead of just focusing on one discipline like sedimentology or hydrogeology you will need all of them. economic geology is the branch of geology that uses all other discplines available to find ore. we use whatever we happen to need. often that means some weeks of self-study becuase even we do not know everything. 

Even an  economic geologists will most likely not b e able to locate all possible ore types on his own. The diversity if simply too big. Either he will join an expert team or do a lot of reading before he starts something new.If you ask a paleontologist to find iron ore or copper he wont be much help for you most likely, the same for a hydrologist perhaps.

So do I know how to find any kind of ore? Probably not. But can I find the most common types of ore and the ones that I specialised on without major help? YES.  I feel very confident that I could locate any kind of industrial minerals needed for construction like limestone, dolomite, marls, clays, sand and gravel, pure silica sand, feldspar or kaoline. 

Metallic ores are a bit harder but at least within germany i feel confident to find iron ore, copper, lead, zinc or even gold. Its a different story with specialties minerals I think.

You all are misunderstanding me. (as happens often unfortunately) The point of my research studies is NOT to get rich. I am not a geologist, miner, blacksmith, or machinist. I’m a translator by day and I’m curious about everything else around me the rest of the time. This is my own personal research. I don’t want to make money off of this. I already have to squeeze these academic endeavours into my super tight work schedule. Very difficult most of the time. I just want to know how to do all of these things in the most practical pragmatic way possible. I always ask that everyone take my inquiries assuming that I will actually do them because that way I get practical teachings from experience and none of the useless “you COULD or might be able to do this or this” I prefer “this is what you have to do” specific advice leading to action to get results efficiently.So, with that said, my whole premise is to be able to wake up nude in the wilderness and possess the knowledge to find whatever ore I am searching for. Now, I know that each of you may be well versed in certain areas and will be able to find certain ores BUT the thing that you all seem to share that Mathias mentioned is that you know what books to read to be able to locate the ores that you don’t have experience with. This is the same thing as what I assume what happen in primitive times. We all know that there is a ton of diamonds in Africa. I’m sure there are locals (“primitive geologists” I’d call them maybe) there who can find diamonds as fast or even much faster than modern geologists would be able to. Why? Because they know their land, their area. If I were to go there and live amongst them for a while and they taught me what they know then I’m sure that I would be able to emulate their success. This same idea I think applies to areas where other ores exist in the world i.e. aluminum, iron, copper, etc. etc. When I am asking you for what books I need to read then I am looking for texts that would teach me similar to how an elder in a village would teach the young ones who are preparing to take over the trade as the old generation passes on and the young generation fills in their shoes to be resident experts on locating the specific abundant ores in their particular area of the globe.Now, what is my ultimate goal? I try to NOT bring this up because it strays from the topic greatly but I really hope it doesn’t in this case. Anyway, my ultimate goal is to possess the knowledge to be able to build modern technological products absolutely from scratch. So, for example, let’s say I want to build an automobile. First, I would need to understand ALL of the science that goes into an automobile (building/operating/fixing/etc.). Next I would get a list of every single part that makes up a car and also I would get a list of what tools/machines are needed to put a car (all the components) together after I get all the parts. So far, my research has shown that the average car has 1,800 individual parts. I’m not sure if that’s true but the most detailed list I could find is here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_auto_parts

So, now that I know what all the parts of an automobile are, next I would need to know how to make all of those parts:

a. Some of those parts can be made directly from raw materials (metal ores) using metal tools.

b. Some of the parts will need to be made from other machines. If so, then I will need to make the parts (from ores) that comprise the machines that will be used to make the certain parts for the automobiles.

I would repeat this process for the tools/machines needed to actually put all the parts together after I have them built.

So, from scratch, in the case of “a” above, first I would need to tap into my geology knowledge to be able to locate the different metal ores that go into the automobile I want to build. Next, I would tap into my mining knowledge to extract the particular ores that I need and at the same time tap into my flintknapping knowledge to build the stone tools that I would need to use to mine the ores. Then I would tap into my blacksmithing knowledge to build a primitive kiln out of clay or whatever and then start building the tools that I will need to build the primary machines and other tools to eventually have an automobile. You see where I’m going with this? Please don’t state that you feel this isn’t possible or will take a long time or anything like that because it doesn’t matter. I just want to learn as much as I can as quickly as possible. And I also fully aware that even after I amass all of this propositional knowledge, I or anyone else for that matter won’t be able to actually carry any of it out until after many many hours of practice. That’s ok. I just want the layout now. Who knows? I’m just a translator but there may be someone that one day stumbles upon my research that is an expert in certain areas of geology, mining, AND blacksmithing (metalworking). With my research, they may possibly have the capacity to actually build an automobile of their choice absolutely from scratch given they are located in an area that has abundant natural resources (ores, oil, gas, etc.) and they are able to freely use the aforementioned resources.

So, like I stated earlier, I will obtain all of the books that you listed although I am sure that not all of them will pertain to what I want to do at this stage. Also, I am sure I will be posting plenty of questions here for you guys/gals because even though you listed some books that I need to read, I don’t know which areas of all the books pertain to what I want to do. I guess getting into specifics like that might be asking a bit too much but at least listing some concepts/objectives that I absolutely must learn would help though. But anyway, we will have to figure all that out together here. I’m pretty sure I won’t need the books that you wrote are “heavy texts even for you” because like I just explicitly outlined above I only want to focus on locating the ores that I need for whatever technological product I am focusing on at a particular point in time. I don’t need to know everything about Geology, only that which exactly pertains to finding what I’m looking for in the simplest most efficient manner.

Basically my goal, in reading the books you recommended, is being able to read the landscape wherever I am located an find whatever ore I need. So, I assume the “basic” general books you recommended to me will teach me how to “read and assess the land”. This is the knowledge that all you experts here share on the geologyrocks forum. Where you knowledge databases differ is that some of you choose to focus on texts that tell how to find limestone, iron ore, copper ores, etc. and some of you choose to focus on texts that teach how to find other specific ores. So, after I know how to read the landscape from the texts mentioned then I guess you all will direct me to specific texts that will show me how to find whatever ore I’m looking for in the most basic/primitive way. This is why I asked you, Mathias, about the importance of maps and if they are really needed. After reading your responses and considering what my goals are, they (maps) ARE needed. If I woke up in the wilderness nude and I wanted to find particular ores, I would be relying on:

#1. my “reading the landscape” teachings gained from the books that Mathias mentioned

AND

2. my knowledge about where ores are located in my area gained from the time period BEFORE I found myself nude in the wilderness which means RIGHT NOW!! hehe! If I choose not to read maps now and find myself in that situation then I will probably say to myself, “darn it, I should have read those maps that Mathias recommended because if I had an idea where some ores are that would save me a lot of time in assessing my surroundings...” Meh, but then again, I would have to be able to find out exactly where I am in the first place in order for my knowledge of maps to come into play, right? And I presume that in itself (figuring out my location) will be a problem that I’ll research on a navigation forum and discuss that with experts who are well versed in that area.

I don't have so much time anymore to reply in length. Finishing my thesis is on the top of my mind these days. But I think I understook that you consider this more to be a survival training than an economic interprise. If your airplane crashes on a remote island you want to be able to make the best use of the materials available, whatever they are. I have a feeling you desire extends beyond the geological side of geology and you also require a basic understanding of chemistry, biology and physics. You don't necesarilly need limestone to make burnt lime, most sea shells or corals also do just as well for example.

Anyways. From what I understand you practically need the complete geologists toolkit of ecomic geology and all relevant disciplines. This is nothing you will learn within 2 or 3 months. The real learning and experience only starts for geologists after they leave UNI and go work for a survey or company. The biggest of yor problems to learn all the basics that you want is that you have no expert to guide you if you dont understand smth from the books - and I asure you there will be lots of moments when you dont understand what the books r trying to say.

I recommend visiting a number of introductionary courses at the university in hawaii. I am sure they have geology there. The professors usually dont mind an extra guest and maybe there is a programm even for late starters. This would allow you to just pick courses you think you need. 

Please Mathias, take your time.  Focus on your thesis now.  I appreciate every single second of time that you take to explain things/concepts to me here.  If after you finish it and maybe have some time, I will be here because as you stated and I am well aware of, this will take me some time to complete.  Maybe after a couple of weeks or even months, if you have time, please feel free to write at length as much as you like.  In the meantime, I will be reading the books you mentioned.  I will post any questions I have here but in addition to that, I will also take your advice and consult with the Geology professors AND students at the University of Hawai'i here for further clarifications to make sure I am comprehending what I am reading.  I will keep in touch for sure!  Thank you!

Congratulations on your thesis again, Mathias!

Ok, I have changed my plans slightly. Instead of reading the texts you posted above, Mathias, I was thinking it would be better if I followed the curriculum and syllabus of a couple of actual Geology programs at couple of universities here in the USA. So, what I have done is locate the syllabus/curricula for some Geology programs and also obtain the names of the textbooks that are associated with those courses. This way my progress will be based on actual university Geology program progressions. You mentioned that I will need basic knowledge of physics, chemistry, calculus so I have included that information from the universities general requirements area also. This is great news! So, first I'll will be starting off with the Geology program at MIT:

http://web.mit.edu/catalog/degre.scien.ch12.html #1
http://eapsweb.mit.edu/education/undergrad/classes/classes.html

There are a number of textbooks that I'm looking for but the first two texts that I will read first are:
- Understanding Earth by Freeman
- How to build a habitable planet by Wallace S. Broecker

1. What are your thoughts on everything above and the new direction for my studies?

There is one thing however that I need to figure out though. In carrying out my plan, how I do ascertain which text I should read and which ones I shouldn't? I mean, should I simply read all the texts that the course requires WITHOUT knowing WHY exactly I am reading that text? My question here is:

2. Do all of you go into detail about every course, text, and book that you read related to a course before you choose to take it? OR do you simply take it to fulfill a degree requirement?

I want to know what specific information exactly I will learn from the recommended books that I will read that will help fill in gaps in my quest for the knowledge to ultimately be able to build a car from scratch.Regarding the first two texts I listed above, I want to know specifically what "Understanding Earth" and "How to build a habitable planet" will teach me that will contribute to my ultimate goal. If it is not related and we teach me nothing related to my goal then I have absolutely no reason reading it. "Understanding Earth" seems like it will be teaching me about the earth. So, I should read it is what it seems. The latter text doesn't seem to teach me anything about me goal and it seems like it's not related to it as well... So, my question here is:

3. What will "Understanding Earth" and "How to build a habitable planet" teach me pertaining to my ultimate goal and should I read it?

I'm going to have to ask the above question for every single textbook I read in my plan that I am doing. That's the only way I'll know whether or not to read it... I look forward to all you all's responses.