GeologyRocks

I remember that thread on dowsing.

As I recall I was one of the few who stood up for it because I had seen it used to search for buried services on a highways job I was working on. The dowsing gave better, more accurate results that the established technological method.

However, I think the problem that dowsing has is that (to my knowledge) no-one has successfully explained how it works on a scientific basis.

Although, and I may have made this point on the original thread, just because we can't explain the evidence doesn't mean we should discount it. The analogy to this is plate tectonics. The princple (continents move around the surface of the earth) is a few hundred years old but, despite all the evidence in favour, it wasn't accepted as a mainstream theory until 60ish years ago when a mechanisms was proposed to be able to move the continents.

To go back to your original point I would hope, and indeed believe, that this forum isn't one where non-mainstream ideas are trashed as a matter of course. I also hope, and indeed believe, that this forum is one where non-mainstream ideas are subjected to a series of critical tests, thought experiments and information from relevant scientific papers.

This does leave dowsing (much observed anecdotal evidence - little published and scientifically accepted evidence) in a bit of limbo!

... bit not so open your brains fall out.

Yes. yes they are.

Homeopaths, Astrologers, New Age mystics,... ect, all have societies, but that doesn't mean that what they practice isn't woo woo non-sense.

Any scientific studies done on the efficacy of dowsing have shown that dowsers have no greater chance at locating... whatever they are looking for, than mere chance. So yes, it is non-sense.

 Clever... nice way to frame the question, but what makes you think those that point out the absurdity of dowsing haven't done "even preliminary research"?

But I did see it work once under semi-scientific conditions. (I know this isn't repeatable proof - but it is a start).

Before breaking ground in a carriageway we consulted the service plans which showed many buried services of a variety of types. We used a Cable Avoidance Tool (CAT) to locate the buried services and marked the ground with chalk at the high point of the signal where the service should be. One operative had been wanting to use dowsing rods for a few days so we gave him a chance and he marked on his service locations with a different coloured chalk. His marks were close but not the same as the CAT. When we cut across the marks to open up the ground we found that the centreline of each service was closer to the marks obtained by dowsing than by the CAT.

I'm not saying this is definate proof but it did work on this occasion. We saw the rods cross and the marks made.  A few of us even attempted ourselves with the rods and they crossed at the same place.

I maintain that this is worthy of further investigation (or that I'm worthy of further education via reference to the scientific studies referred to in the post above) to explain either:

a) How dowsing works. What it can detect. What it can't dectect. And why.

or

b) Why dowsing doesn't work. Why it would not be possible to detect electromagentic fields generated by buried electrical cables or induced currents in iron pipes.

Having seen it with my own eyes, from a position of hefty scepticism, I think there is scope for further work on this subject.

I'm with solius on this one...

An article from Germany, in Naturwissenschaften 82, 360-369 (1995) by J.T. Enright, entitled - Water Dowsing: The Scheunen Experiments, concludes:

"A re-examination of the data...indicates that no persuasive evidence was obtained for a genuine, reproducible dowsing skill. The absence of reproducibility suggests that the entire research outcome can reasonably be attributed to chance".

That said, the human brain is a remarkable analytical tool, it could be that the subconscious of some individuals interprets available data (differences in the lie of the land, colour or vegetation variations, etc.)  in a specific way that does give them a slightly better than average chance at locating something.

What I can't abide is the New Age clap-trap that surrounds it, all of the ill-defined tuning into psychic-cosmic-spiritual energies rubbish... Get a proper job, hippies!

Ben. 

I am offended by this. My jewish black mother is a hippie.  

Put it down slowly, and then step carefully away from the spliff, Sir. 

Hi Sunbeem,

As has been said, there is a lot of hocus pocus with dowsing from some quarters.   I sell 'dowsing pendulums' to a certain person, who sells them on to his clients who climb on coaches he organises, to go and see the latest crop circle produced by aliens (why do these aliens - who must have to travel many light years - centred so much on Wiltshire, and the Vale of Pewsey in particular?  And they manage to produce them in field which are visible from roads? And how does this guy know where the latest circle is? )

These 'dowsing pendulums are facetted semi precious stones (amethyst, rose quartz etc) on a piece of chain.  Nothing special at all.  So ask me why I am sceptical!

However,  I knew a very down to earth lady in Chipping Sodbury who was a total unbeliever until she stayed with an old school friend who was married to a vicar. He took her into the church, put diving rods in her hands and told her to walk down the ailse.  She did it three times and at two point each time these rods were uncontrollable.  She was then told that the two points were where ley lines crossed.  Maybe there is something in that.

A friend of mine was a believer in dowsing for water, and some years ago bought a property in Zimbabwe (it was probably still Rhodesia then!) He went over his property with divining rods and made secret marks where he believed water to be.  He had a water drilling company in to sink bore holes for water and they chose three spots, the furthest was only 4" away from where he had dowsed.

I do believe there is something in this, but I don't believe all I hear from some of these people.

 ex Bluebell.  

 John

“Civilisation exists by geological consent, subject to change without notice.” -  Will Durant

Hello John,

As I understand it, anything can be used as a pendulum. A 10mm nut on a bit of thread will get you started.

Having said that, I have made wrought iron pendulums in various weights, which all suit particular circumstances.

 I share your scepticism insofar as I suspend both belief and disbelief.

I press the switch, and the light comes on. I accept electricity. Do I believe in it ? -- no. To believe, I'd have to understand, or it's mere faith. And I don't understand electricity on the atomic level at all.

I've no wish to offer anyone my world view as being superior to their own, we all travel our own path, and I am more interested in the ideas of those who resonate with my own -- though there is value even in derision.

People dowse with many types of apparatus, all of which simply serve as amplifiers for small muscle movements which would otherwise remain unobserved. These movements are responses to stimuli from our subconscious minds, where we share information with a wider gestalt.

Pendulums are often used in conjunction with maps or diagrams, prior to L shaped rods for work in the field. 

The part I find tricky, is maintaining the right state of mind. It's not about believing, it's like my hammer and anvil ... I know they work - the question is, can I work them ?

For those who recoil from this hippie dippie rubbish, as the song says, "You aint gonna learn what you don't want to know." 

For those who take the road less traveled, dowsing can be a useful tool, to be used with care and respect.

Sunbeem.

One day more, one day less.